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This Month's Scripture Verse:

1 But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their indecent behavior, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep..
II Peter 2:1-3

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Showing posts with label Side B Christianity. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Side B Christianity. Show all posts

Wednesday, December 14, 2022

Comments Which Conservatives Block From Their Blogs For December 14, 2022

Nov 20

To the Heidelblog for its article on Greg Johnson's church, Memorial Presbyterian Church leaving of the PCA. That church decided to leave because of Johnson's treatment by those in the PCA. The treatment he received was because of his advocacy for Side B Christianity and for some of the programs it was running for those who are transgendered.

The over reliance on the Westminster Standards points to the faults of some conservatives in how they react to LGBT issues. The degree of reliance on those standards makes those standards to conservative Presbyterians what the traditions were to the Pharisees mentioned in Mark 7.

The over reliance on those standards in this issue can be seen in the fact that the writers of those standards have not faced many of the issues we are facing today. In fact, most of us who are living today do not understand enough about homosexuality and transgenderism to take some of the stands that those who rely too heavily on those standards are taking. 

Most of us have not read much about these issues from the medical and psychological communities to adequately respond to Side_B Christianity and Revoice. We do know enough from the Scriptures to say that homosexuality and transitioning genders are not actions that can be tolerated in the Church regardless of the denomination that a given church like Memorial Presbyterian Church belongs to. But we don't know enough about the struggles that people today who are SSA and those with gender dysphoria have on how to adequately respond to those who SSA or have gender dysphoria. Their struggles are not all necessarily the same as those who had those conditions when the Westminster Standards were written.

So it seems that both sides need correction. We have to realize that SSA and gender dysphoria point to problems we have not just with our sin nature, but with nature itself since it also fell when Adam and Eve sinned. But how we approach people whose struggles are different from our own must not be based on even a small level of xenophobia. We all have multiple identities. One of our identities is in Christ. Another one of our identities is the same as that of the tax collector in the parable of the two men praying. Without that latter identity, that parable ironically becomes irrelevant for us believers. It ironically becomes irrelevant because forgetting that latter identity is unscriptural.

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Nov 21

To Heidelblog and Steven Smith for the part that quotes Smith's review of Muñoz's book that claims that natural rights and equality. That such concept minimizes religious freedom in America. 

Steven Smith's full article can be found at:

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2022/11/85411/

If we understand the following logic, then we should realize that freedom has the same built in self-restraint that democracy has.

Freedom - Equality = Privilege.

Of course we should recognize that democracy without equality for its citizens is not democracy. Here we should remember what Thomas Jefferson said in his 1801 Inaugural Address:

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

When exercising our freedom, our religious actions and speech becomes privilege when our actions and speech does not recognize the equality of others. Of course some would argue about the necessity of natural law into the formula. But whose natural law are we referring to?

That question comes into play with LGBT issues because of what the Christian understanding of natural law says. But when we look at nature and the fact that same-sex behavior (SSB) can be observed in hundreds if not well over 1,000 species, what should we say? After all, since we don't recognize sin in animals, sin is not the issue in their SSB. And so don't we need to acknowledge that nature might be giving some people mixed messages about sexual orientation and gender identity? And if our religious freedom is infringing on the equality of others, then aren't we exercising religious privilege instead?

The issue of when the exercise of religion was really the exercise of privilege also came into play in America from the 1870s through to the 1960s. That was when Jim Crow had a prominent place in American life even in those places where Jim Crow laws were not passed. For some Christians used their religious faith to defend white supremacy and segregation. Therefore, the federal dismantling of Jim Crow could logically be seen as an infringement on religious freedom of those Christians who used their faith to defend Jim Crow. The same could be said about the federal effort to dismantle slavery.

If we include the concept of democracy here, we find that the government is there to represent all of its people as equals. And thus to give a religious view privilege and a place of supremacy in determining our laws over people from other religious views changes our democracy into a religious ethnocracy and the religious freedom of those whose religion so honored by the government into religious privilege. And perhaps what we see as an infringement on religious freedom is really an effort to  reduce and eliminate religious privilege.

Is it natural rights that harms the free exercise of religion? It seems that with the issue equality being central in the concepts of freedom and democracy, it appears so. Thus, we need to acknowledge that if our social contract privileged one religion over others, then our social contract no longer promotes freedom and democracy.

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Dec 5

To R. Scott Clark and his article on what Christians can do with Natural Law in governing our nation. This appeared Heidelblog.

Besides the overly positive view of the American Exceptionalism as see in Clark's description of the American experiment, the problem with the above article is found in the details. Where do we see all of the stipulations made by natural law? Also, if we are free to build a society on natural law are we also free to build a society with only selective parts of natural law?

That last question pertains to LGBT rights today. If we are in a compact not to impose our religious beliefs on others, are we calling our beliefs about sexual orientation and gender identity natural law in order to impose those beliefs with a free conscience?

We should also note something else about nature when it comes to many in the LGBT community, We should note that same-sex behavior (SSB) exists in around 1,500 animal species to varying degrees of strength and importance. Noting that we don't attribute sin to animals, is the prevalence of SSB in the animal world telling us something about what natural law says about homosexuality? In fact, are we too willing to make laws about sexual orientation and gender identity when we haven't even come close to understanding all of the factors that contribute to homosexuality and transgenderism?

We might also ask if the Apostles give us any indication of whether they viewed natural law in the same way that Clark, using Reformed Confessions, does? So far, the argument for using natural law to codify laws governing sexual behavior is based on a long list of deductions whose basis for thought comes from Christian theologians and pastors who wrote during a time in Christendom. And if we look at the end of I Corinthians 5 where Paul deals with a sexual sin that he says was not even tolerated among the pagans, what does that say about employing natural laws regarding homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and transgenderism.

Returning to the description of American Exceptionalism as seen in the American experiment, shouldn't one expects more fruit and fewer thorns than what that experiment has produced. Of course, one's view of the fruit and thorns can be greatly determined by the groups one hangs out with. Those groups that have experienced great privilege in this nation will see more fruit and fewer thorns than those groups that have been working their way out of being marginalized. And ironically, the greatest accumulative push for deliverance and freedom from that marginalization came from a time period that questioned, and still does, the place that America's traditional religious faiths, some with their beliefs in natural law, have had in this nation.

We should also note the historical context of the writing of The Constitution. That context was the threat that widespread dissent and Shays Rebellion posed to the status of America's homegrown elites. 

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Dec 9

To R. Scott Clark and his article that reviews a book by David Neff which responds to a complaint by Roger Olson which says that Arminians are the victims of 'mean Calvinists.' This appeared in Heidelblog.

Roger Olson and I have discussed Calvinism on his blog--btw, he has one of the finest Christian blogs I've seen. When he complains about Calvinists, he  is more often complaining about personal experiences he has had with some Calvinists. But he is careful not to include all Calvinists in that category of those who have shown animosity toward him. So how can Clark criticize Olson's complaints about Calvinists?

Of course Olson also has theological complaints about Calvinism and hopefully my memory will not do disservice to what has said. The short of it is this, Calvinism, according to Olson, does not do justice to man's responsibility and ability to choose or to God's righteousness in dealing with people. In a model that emphasizes man's responsibility and free will in contrast to God's sovereignty, Olson absolutizes the former and thus sees Calvinism's view of God's sovereignty as being inconsistent with that. I remember from my time at WTS that we shouldn't absolutize either God's wanting all to repent or God's sovereignty otherwise we will make one concept subservient to the other. Instead, we should take each concept and apply it to the issues that God's Word applies them to since both concepts are expressed in the Scriptures. At the same time, we were taught Calvinism.

As for the narcissism quip, it is simply wrong and perhaps Clark is providing a minor example of Calvinists about which Olson has been complaining with that quip. Does celebrating or highlighting the small differences that exist between one's own group and other groups in the Church imply that some narcissism is present? We really need to be careful about what we say about each other in the Church lest we become more and more like the Pharisees against whom Jesus spoke. James 2 also warns us against us Christians judging one another. 

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Dec 9

To Walter McDougall and his article on preserving conservatism despite the existence of hustlers in our system. This article appeared in the Imaginative Conservative blog.

There are two points to make here. First, could American Capitalism ever exist without the hustlers in our nation about whom McDougall complained?

Second, if conservatism brings more happiness than liberalism and people are now being directed to pursue the happiness above all, then shouldn't conservatism see a big increase in their numbers right about now?

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Dec 10

To R. Scott Clark and his article on education and how it is, in essence, providing a road to Sodom for Americans. This appeared in the Heidelblog.

I see the problems with American education differently and I see no Marxist indoctrination. Instead, at the public school level I saw the results of Administrators seeking to put the self image of students as a first priority in education because that is what education theory has been emphasizing, of teachers who have not uses their unions to resist what is being pushed on them, of parents who were second in line in making the self-image of their children in school the top priority, and of students, who are addicted to entertainment, went along for the ride. All of that is what I observed from teaching 19 and 1/2 years in colleges.

If there is any indoctrination to engineer compliance, it is one that promotes corporate interests. This is especially true in colleges and universities with the devaluation of the humanities and  an increased emphasis on technology, business, and what students immediately need to learn to get jobs asap after graduation. In fact, it seems that there is a businessfication of colleges where students have become customers which has lowered the academic standards colleges and universities have used to grant admission and the grade inflation used to retain students once they have started.

What I see among many of my fellow religiously conservative American Christians, including its educators, is a deliberate ignorance of what Marxism is and the full context of the sexual revolutions both about which they so eager wring their hands over and scapegoat.

Many of the problems that we see in American education is the result of the long-term effects of living in a consumer society where progress is measured by how far away from nature our lives can get.





Wednesday, October 5, 2022

Comments Which Conservatives Block From Their Blogs For October 5, 2022

 Sept 29

To Heidelblog and Ryan Bias for the article that quotes Ryan Bias on Overture 15 from the PCA. That overture deals with whether people who identify themselves by their unnatural desires should hold positions in Church offices. 

Ryan Biese's article in full:

    https://rfbwcf.substack.com/p/clarity-on-overture-15

Is the issue about having unnatural desires, which we see carried out in the animal kingdom? Or is the issue about how people define themselves? Unlike the classification of some desires as being unnatural, there is no one clear approach to the latter question.

Do Christians only have 1 identity or one identification? Are we to only define ourselves as new creations? If the answer to that question is 'yes,' then how do we escape the fate of the Pharisee and embrace the fate of the tax collector from the parable of the 2 men praying (see Luke 18:9-14)?

The above overture seems to be more about how we define ourselves rather than what our desires are. And in determining how we Christians should define ourselves, we need to look at all of the Scriptures that shed light on that issue, not just a few or even one Scripture passage.

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Sometime on or soon after September 29

To Clyde Wilson and his article praise of conservative Russell Kirk's admiration for Southern Valor. This article appeared in the Imaginative Conservative blog.

Perhaps the following paragraph gives a clear picture of where some want conservatism to go from here:

'That a conservative of Kirk’s stamp should value the south should not shock anyone. It was, after all, Randolph, the quintessentially Southern statesman, who said: “I love liberty and hate equality,” thus summing up the American traditionalist’s creed as well as it has ever been done. Where else in America than in the South could Kirk find substantial and continuing traditions to oppose egalitarianism and utilitarianism, to affirm the American link with British culture and a propertied order, a preference for local liberties and prescriptive rights, and a distaste for abstract schemes and rationalistic progress?'

We can tell from some of the comments to this article that not all conservatives oppose equality. But what is tragic is the refusal or inability to clearly define liberty exhibited by some. For what is liberty that is not enjoyed by all but privilege. It introduces hierarchy and eventually authoritarianism.  Is that what conservatives want attributed to conservatism? Unfortunately, some do, but fortunately others do not.

As for the opposition to ideology expressed in the article above, their embrace of conservatism shows that they are only opposed to the ideologies of others, not to all ideologies. After all, they embrace conservatism.

While conservatives revel in their traditionalism, they should note that traditionalism is the mirror image of narcissism. For each one puts a certain  time period(s) on such a pedestal that implies that their favorite time period(s) have everything to teach other time periods and nothing to learn from them--to adapt a phrase provided by Martin Luther King Jr. when speaking against the Vietnam War. King rightfully called such an attitude arrogant. And for students of the Scriptures, we should note that arrogance is never smiled on by God's Word. Neither is the belief in one's own moral superiority over that of others (see Luke 18:9-14 or Romans 1-3).

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Oct 3

To R. Scott Clark and his article about some of the differences between Reformed 2 Kingdom thinking and the approaches taken by the neo-Kuyperians and TheoRecons. This was posted on the Heidelblog website.

But we should note here is the context of early Reformation writers on 2 Kingdoms. They were writing when Christendom was firmly established. Calvin was very much a theocrat, which is different from being a theonomist. And since Christendom continued well after their lives, other Reformers lived in a very similar context in which Luther, Melanchthon, and Calvin lived. And that context is dramatically different from today's religiously heterogeneous societies and our own separation of Church and State concept from The Constitution.

Among Reformed 2 Kingdom (2K) Theologians and followers, I have seen support for the notion that nations should codify the whole 2nd Table of the Law in one way or another. And that idea seems to be more consistent with the Neo-Kuypernians and TheoRecons than with the promotion of 2 distinct kingdoms.

Personally, I think we should approach the neo-Kuyperians and TheoRecons vs 2K divide in a very similar way that Martin Luther King Jr. approached the Capitalism vs Communism divide. Here I should mention that King wrongfully seemed to have conflated Soviet Union Communism with Marxism. King noted the weaknesses and strengths in each approach and encouraged us to create a hybrid of the two. 

Here we should note that while Reformed 2K respects a religiously heterogeneous society more than the Neo-Kuypernians and others do but at the same time it cancels the Church's prophetic voice being spoken to society and the world, but only to a certain extent. Meanwhile, the efforts of the neo-Kuyperians and TheoRecons and some others show an inadequate amount of respect for today's religiously heterogeneous societies and yet preserves the Church's prophetic voice being spoken to the world. We should borrow from both and direct the Church to  adequately respect today's religiously heterogeneous societies, including atheism, while speaking prophetically against the corporate sins of societies and nations. 

What should be avoided is the strict division between the two approaches especially when each side claims to have the Reformers on their side. What is more important is to have God's Word on one's side. And to use the Reformers as a standard for orthodoxy here begs the question of the accuracy of their interpretation of God's Word, especially considering the context in which they were writing.







Wednesday, March 23, 2022

Comments Which Conservatives Block From Their Blogs For March 23, 2022

 March 15

To R. Scott Clark and W. Robert Godfrey for Godfrey's article including the portion quoted in Clark's blog post. This appeared on Heidelblog.

Godfrey's full article is linked to below:

    https://outlook.reformedfellowship.net/sermons/disestablished/

Godfrey's article reminds me of two problems that I see within the conservative sector of any group. First, negative changes has them singing the Things Ain't What They Use To Be blues. Second, they rely to much on the past to understand and respond to the future. That last tendency is especially true during trying times.

My experiences with Reformed conservatives and Lutheran conservatives is that their subscription to standards written in the past causes a tribalism that splits the Church at large and their own movements in particular. The splitting of the Church is seen in a kind of snobbery toward those who don't hold to their standards. Those who hold to different standards are seen by these conservatives as 2nd class Christians, if they are considered to be Christians at all, who belong to the body of Christ. They are seen as having nothing to listen to or read from while in great need of the superior spiritual guidance of these very conservatives. But more than that, that tribalism often produces a hostility by one Christian toward another because the other Christian disagrees with something said in the treasured past. That hostility causes one person for whom Christ died to aggressively attack another person for whom Christ died. 

I asked a conservative Reformed theologian whether he thought that the OPC, the denomination I belong to, puts the Westminster Standards on too high a pedestal--putting standards on too high a pedestal is a major cause for theological tribalism.  This person responded by saying that no matter where you go, you have a certain set of standards that are being subscribed to. So I asked if that person then thought whether tribalism was a fixed cost to holding a certain set of standards. That person declined to answer.

Yes, there are times for Reformed conservatives and Lutheran conservatives to teach their standards and continue to check them. But the majority of times we should be working with Christians who hold to different standards than our own or who are not even confessionalists to collaborate together to preach and teach the Gospel. That means that we have to check our standards based tribalism at the door and realize that we have as much to learn from others as they have to learn from us.

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March 16

To Stephen Spinnenweber and his article, which is part 3 in what appears to be a series, that tries to show an outright rejection of Side B Christianity, which is Christians who struggle with being same sex attracted but remain celibate and its proclamation that sexual orientation is fixed, is real Biblical caring for such Christians. This appeared in Heidelblog.

The problem on the conservative side, represented by Spinnenweber, is that we really don't know all of the causes of same-sex attraction? Are there genetic predispositions involved? Are there physical environmental factors at play here? For example, if because of the fact that the current water filtration systems we have do not extract hormones used in medicines, is that affecting our sexual orientation and/or identity? What interpersonal factors that are the result of one's family environment which are affecting our orientation and/or identity? And how long in life are those factors contributing to who we are?

My observation is that traditionalists, regardless of the source of the tradition, and old people tend to rely too heavily on the past to interpret and respond to the present. So the Westminster Standards, though having something to say here, are by themselves inadequate to address this problem. In fact, reliance on them to help provide an answer here should very limited. After all, those standards were written in a different time and context and thus have their own chronological trappings. The same applies to applying eschatology, such as over or under realized eschatology, in terms of what we can expect in each case. The same applies to citing examples of Christians who have overcome same sex attraction. Not everyone who suffers from this is experiencing the same set of factors at the same degree.

If we all have besetting sins, which might be a wholly inadequate way to describe this problem, why are conservatives singling out same sex attraction as one that will be changed by saying God can do anything? After all, don't we say that God can do anything when praying for a person who is seriously ill but are not surprised when that person continues to be ill or succumbs to that illness? Yes, God can do anything? But some who struggle with same sex attraction might not ever rid themselves of that attraction just as each of us may never rid ourselves of our besetting sins.

Considering how we don't have a definitive answer for all of the causes of  same sex attraction, especially since homosexuality is very prevalent in the animal kingdom, I don't see how the above approach can be one that either is caring or helps some with this attraction to change. In addition, what is taken for granted are the changes already made by many Christians with this attraction. Thus, we don't understand the degree of struggle that many Christians who are same sex attracted experience and accomplish just by remaining celibate.

So just perhaps it is time for both those who agree with Johnson and conservatives like Spinnenweber to go back to the drawing board regarding this issue.

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March 20

To Viktor Orbán, the Prime Minister of Hungary and his article on Hungary's response to the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. This appeared in the Imaginative Conservative blog.

There is some Trumpism in the above article: the scapegoating of the left (should note that Hungary's left is different from America's left), a nation first perspective, and block immigration mentality. I forgot one other Trumpism: national self-flattery, but that is a common trait of many nations.

The overall theme of the note seems to echo the words of an old Simon and Garfunkel song: 'I am a rock I am an island.' And of course, isolationism is the Word of any nation that focuses so much on itself. 

But history teaches the world's nations to beware of imperialism, being a policeman, and isolationism. That makes the decision of what to do when there is a significant injustice, like an invasion, that is occurring elsewhere, especially in a neighboring country.

Certainly the European theater of WW II tells us what happens when one ignores a threat until that threat is knocking on one's own door. If we apply the Principle of Universality to Orbán's response to the invasion of the Ukraine, then Orbán should be fine with the world ignoring any coming Russian invasion of Hungary. Then again, maybe Orbán has faith that Putin wouldn't invade his nation. After all, they both belong to very conservative churches and so Putin wouldn't have to feel threatened by Hungary as he appears to feel threatened by the decadent West. Then again, turning a blind eye to Putin's faults is another Trumpism.

Though the decision for Hungary to get involved  in Russia's war on the Ukraine is a complicated one, the basic tone of the above article is disturbing. For it says that one's only job is to become strong so others won't pick on one's nation while ignoring the injustices that surround them. Such an approach doesn't seem to reflect what the Scriptures say which should matter Orbán belongs to a religiously conservative Christian Church.



Wednesday, July 14, 2021

Comments Which Conservatives Block From Their Blogs For July 14, 2021

The comment below was blocked in its original form. Thanks to a hack, it was posted later. 

July 9

To Gene Veith and his blogpost on how Christianity is seeing an increase in adherents in the nation of Iran. At the end, the article states that the increasing influence of Christianity in Iran is a 'blow to Western Secularism.' This appears in the Cranach blog on Patheos.

What is the compulsion to make progress or set backs for Christianity as either a blow to or victory for Secularism? Why not allow for interpretations of the news that assumes a context of peaceful coexistence rather than for some kind of competition for control?

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July 13

To R.Scott Clark and his blogpost quote from an article by Jon Payne that stated that there is no room for compromise with Side B Christianity and CRT because they are unbiblical. This quote of Payne's article appeared in Heidelblog. 

Jon Payne's article, from which Clark's quote originally appeared in, can be found at: 

    https://gospelreformation.net/the-pcas-bright-future-without-a-bigger-tent/

"We mustn't make room for Side B or CRT"? Does that mean that those who believe to any significant degree in what Side B or CRT are saying must be excommunicated from the Church? That neither view has any truth in them? Is that what is behind that quote?  After all, to take that quote with any seriousness at all and to take what he says later in the article about how there can be 'no compromise,' Church discipline is required on those who advocate any part of either view. Otherwise, the Church could affirm the legitimacy of parts of Side B and CRT.

But my guess is that the PCA doesn't want to discipline those who advocate to any significant degree those questionable views. The conservatives in the PCA just wants marginalize those who advocate such views within the denomination. Perhaps it is out of hopes that such advocates would disappear from the denomination out of attrition. But certainly, this is a control issue. And though such fears are more understandable for the Side B view, such fears over CRT has more to do with what is and is not kosher with the PCA subculture than with the Bible. That subculture being a predominantly an American conservative political one. And that subculture view is more dominated by influences from European and our nation's founding fathers, and thus a white subculture view, than by the Scriptures.

We should note something about racism in the discussion of CRT. While most conservatives who reject CRT want racism to be defined in terms of what it means to them, most of whom are white, CRT defines racism in terms of what it means to the victims of racism. Thus, such a rejection shows a problem that those conservatives have with being self-absorbed. But such a reliance on the past also shows a continuity with the Pharisees to whom Jesus was speaking  in Mark 7: those who relied on their traditions to understand the Word of God.

In short, the all-or-nothing approach to Side B and CRT is more out of the most pronounced weakness of conservatism: that they rely too much on the past, here I am excluding the Scriptures, to understand the and respond to the present. And in that sense, conservatives are against the notion of always reforming but are also in danger of associating unbiblical conservative subculture views too closely with the Scriptures.